Comments on: It’s Hard to Argue… http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html Data is ones and zeroes | Software is ones and zeroes and hard work. Thu, 24 May 2012 15:30:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Steve http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-431 Steve Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:54:04 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-431 I suspect all current open source languages must ultimately accept that none of them will be the programming lingua franca of programming by the time literacy skills include the ability to manipulate information by computer. Python is a step along one path, Perl is another, Ruby a third and so on. Choice is a great thing: just as not all people speak the same language, so they need not program in the same language. All should "play nice". Is there a Ruby for .NET/Mono? How about a domain-specific language toolkit? Maybe the new AST compilation techniques will make it easier to use the Python interpreter as a DSL toolkit. For those who couldn't see Guido's OSCON presentation there's http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6459339159268485356 I suspect all current open source languages must ultimately accept that none of them will be the programming lingua franca of programming by the time literacy skills include the ability to manipulate information by computer. Python is a step along one path, Perl is another, Ruby a third and so on. Choice is a great thing: just as not all people speak the same language, so they need not program in the same language. All should “play nice”. Is there a Ruby for .NET/Mono? How about a domain-specific language toolkit? Maybe the new AST compilation techniques will make it easier to use the Python interpreter as a DSL toolkit. For those who couldn’t see Guido’s OSCON presentation there’s http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6459339159268485356

]]> By: AvoidingAnotherRubyEvaluation http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-430 AvoidingAnotherRubyEvaluation Sat, 06 May 2006 17:35:54 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-430 "I remember when Java books were selling like hotcakes, too. Three years later, most enterprise web applications were being developed in Java..." Take heart, at least one person is not ignoring your substantial point. “I remember when Java books were selling like hotcakes, too. Three years later, most enterprise web applications were being developed in Java…”

Take heart, at least one person is not ignoring your substantial point.

]]> By: Martijn Faassen http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-429 Martijn Faassen Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:30:18 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-429 Greg; I think comparing Python with Objective C or Linda concerning library support is way off. Python has an enormous breadth of libraries far beyond web programming; I suspect only Perl, Java and C may have a wider support, but the competition is close as Python has traditionally been great at exposing C libraries, where Perl and Java are somewhat weaker. Greg; I think comparing Python with Objective C or Linda concerning library support is way off. Python has an enormous breadth of libraries far beyond web programming; I suspect only Perl, Java and C may have a wider support, but the competition is close as Python has traditionally been great at exposing C libraries, where Perl and Java are somewhat weaker.

]]> By: Robert http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-428 Robert Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:23:11 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-428 Here is Guido's take on Python 3000: www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/accu2006/Py3kACCU.ppt Here is Guido’s take on Python 3000:

http://www.python.org/doc/essays/ppt/accu2006/Py3kACCU.ppt

]]> By: Robert http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-427 Robert Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:05:54 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-427 You know what though? Outside of RoR I don't hear anything at all about Ruby. I hear about Python all over the place and I don't even use it (I use Tcl or Perl). It is easy for Ruby books to skyrocket since nobody was buying them before. You know what though? Outside of RoR I don’t hear anything at all about Ruby. I hear about Python all over the place and I don’t even use it (I use Tcl or Perl). It is easy for Ruby books to skyrocket since nobody was buying them before.

]]> By: Simon Hibbs http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-426 Simon Hibbs Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:41:07 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-426 It's good to see Ruby doing well, even though I use Python. The main reason for that is that I'm not interested in web programming, and Python has far more breadth in it's library and framework support. As a Pythonista, this doesn't concern me at all. Python book sales have been growing at about the same rate for many years now, and the appearance of Ruby on the scene does not appear to have had the effect of slowing Python's rate of growth, despite undoubtedly drawin some people away from Python. I think it's fair to assume that rails is actualy growing the market for these sorts of languages more than it is eating Python's lunch. Simon Hibbs It’s good to see Ruby doing well, even though I use Python. The main reason for that is that I’m not interested in web programming, and Python has far more breadth in it’s library and framework support. As a Pythonista, this doesn’t concern me at all.

Python book sales have been growing at about the same rate for many years now, and the appearance of Ruby on the scene does not appear to have had the effect of slowing Python’s rate of growth, despite undoubtedly drawin some people away from Python. I think it’s fair to assume that rails is actualy growing the market for these sorts of languages more than it is eating Python’s lunch.

Simon Hibbs

]]> By: Dan F http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-425 Dan F Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:01:21 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-425 this argument is ridiculous in so many ways. first of all, percentage increase of book sales is a dubious figure of popularity (or lack thereof). If ROR sold 10 books last year, and 70 this year (7 fold increase), and python sold 1000 books last year, and 1430 books this year, python is still 'more popular'. as for the increase, of course ROR is selling more books (compared to themselves), its brand new, python has been around for a while now, people arent going to re-buy 'learning python' every year. think before you post. this argument is ridiculous in so many ways. first of all, percentage increase of book sales is a dubious figure of popularity (or lack thereof). If ROR sold 10 books last year, and 70 this year (7 fold increase), and python sold 1000 books last year, and 1430 books this year, python is still ‘more popular’. as for the increase, of course ROR is selling more books (compared to themselves), its brand new, python has been around for a while now, people arent going to re-buy ‘learning python’ every year. think before you post.

]]> By: Jean-Paul http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-424 Jean-Paul Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:40:03 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-424 From the PEP, "Python 3000 will break backwards compatibility. There is no requirement that Python 2.9 code will run unmodified on Python 3.0." I'm just repeating the official plans. Perhaps it's FUD, but it's PSF FUD. From the PEP,

“Python 3000 will break backwards compatibility. There is no requirement that Python 2.9 code will run unmodified on Python 3.0.”

I’m just repeating the official plans. Perhaps it’s FUD, but it’s PSF FUD.

]]> By: Richard Jones http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-423 Richard Jones Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:48:04 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-423 nestr: The version number bump from 1.x to 2.0 was more about licensing than anything else. The transition from 2.x to 3.0 will be quite a different one, and it's been stated that it will break some things. Having said that, Jean-Paul is just peddling FUD. nestr: The version number bump from 1.x to 2.0 was more about licensing than anything else. The transition from 2.x to 3.0 will be quite a different one, and it’s been stated that it will break some things.

Having said that, Jean-Paul is just peddling FUD.

]]> By: nestr http://third-bit.com/blog/archives/464.html#comment-422 nestr Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:25:41 +0000 http://pyre.third-bit.com/blog/?p=464#comment-422 Lies, da*ed lies and statistics. Ruby is newer. I do not know the exact numbers but it is much easier to grow seven times from 2 to 14 books than to grow 50% from 200 to 300 books. And if they catch up with Python more power to them. I like Ruby. If they used indentation for scope and had a extensive standard library I would not mind switching. As far as Python-3000 is concerned many people have wrong expectations. If the changes from version 1.x to version 2.x are any indication, version 3.x will change little for most people (and that is good). Most changes will happen "under the hood". The "user interface" of the language will stay the same. So other than newer editions of reference books with phrases like "covers up to 3.0" on the cover, the impact of P3k should have little impact on those curves. Lies, da*ed lies and statistics. Ruby is newer. I do not know the exact numbers but it is much easier to grow seven times from 2 to 14 books than to grow 50% from 200 to 300 books. And if they catch up with Python more power to them. I like Ruby. If they used indentation for scope and had a extensive standard library I would not mind switching.

As far as Python-3000 is concerned many people have wrong expectations. If the changes from version 1.x to version 2.x are any indication, version 3.x will change little for most people (and that is good). Most changes will happen “under the hood”. The “user interface” of the language will stay the same. So other than newer editions of reference books with phrases like “covers up to 3.0″ on the cover, the impact of P3k should have little impact on those curves.

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